minivan car seat issues...

[chanterelle]

I'm sure someone else on here has had this problem... Oh, and this is long , and a bit of a rant, too!

We bought a (used) 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan, as we are expecting our third baby. Since it's a 7 seater, we anticipated having no problems fitting everyone inside it. Our thought was to put the two "big" kids (both still in forward facing 5 point harness car seats) on either side of the back bench, with the baby in it's rear-facing car seat in one of the middle captain's chairs (there are 2 chairs in the middle row).

However, upon closer inspection, we discovered that the 2 captain's chairs are LATCH compatible, but the back bench has only one position in which to put a carseat - the centre back seat, using the lap-belt only; there is a metal hook (not a tether bolt in the floor) on the back centre of the bench to attach the tether strap to.

I called a car seat installation person to ask what we should do, and was told that we could not put two car seats on either side of the bench, thread the tether straps through the headrests and then down onto that hook - the angle was too great, and the hook was designed to support only one car seat at a time. She told me to go to the dealership and ask them to drill two holes into the frame (?) and then install 2 tetherbolts - one behind each seat. Oh, and she said it had to be done by the dealership, or our insurance would be void in an accident.

So I called the dealership, and they told me that we'd find instructions in our manual on how to thread the tether straps through the headrests and attach both of them to the middle hook - exactly what the car seat tech told me not to do! When I explained that, he then read to me a bit off their in shop manual which said "In 2002, Transport Canada required that all 5+ seated vehicles have a minimum of 3 positions in which to secure car seats", and so by making the captain's chairs and the centre back position LATCH / seatbelt & tether strap compatible, Chrysler has done all it will do, and they won't drill holes in the floor to install new tether bolts.

Arghh! I then called ICBC, as I know tons of families who have their kids in the back bench, on either side, with tether bolts put in (not stock). It took a bit, but when ICBC got back to me, she said that they have no regs against any mechanic doing it, but we'd have to apply for "altered vehicle status", and get our van inspected by a registered ICBC inspector and then change our insurance.

Soooo, (sorry for the novel!) I then called our insurance company with this tale, who, after they had done some research into the matter told me that the whole thing was ridiculous, they'd still continue to insure us and there was no need to go through this whole application / inspection process. They said to get the tether bolts installed where we want them and not to worry.

However, DH points out that ICBC is still the bottom line for insurance, and even if our private insurance provider will cover us (and this was only a verbal reassurance over the phone), perhaps ICBC won't unless we go through their hoops.

We can fit 3 car seats - that's not the issue. But it means that the 2 big kids, in their forward facing seats will be in the captain's chairs, and the baby, rear-facing, will be in the back bench - a big pain for buckling and unbuckling! Not the end of the world, for sure, but inconvenient!

So what have you done? Did you have this hassle? How do you have your van set up with your kids? What did your insurance provider say (did you ask them? )? And, have you been in an accident and had any repercussions?

Many, many thanks from a confused, highly pregnant mama.

[LisaP]

Couldn't you put the baby in one of the captains chairs, one of the big kids in the middle back and the other big kid in the other captain's chair? As long as you can get the bigger kid car seat in a tight install with the lap belt in the rear...

[3_pack_mom]

I own a 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport, and run a family childcare. I went through exactly the process that you are describing. I had to get a mechanic to install the bolts, as the dealership didn't want to do it, and then get an inspection done by ICBC of the tether bolts to make sure that they were properly installed and that it was safe to have car seats in those positions.

For me, I was really worried that if I was ever in an accident that ICBC would do anything they could to avoid coverage (as is the reputation of all insurance agents ), so I followed everything they told me to do by the letter.

HTH!

[kapoohhh]

Is your 5 year old close to going into a booster for weight... I noticed you saying he is larger in your ticker for his age.
Then you would not need a 3rd anchor.

[brymommy]

I would go through the process of having the tether bolts put in...

Other wise I would put your oldest middle back and use one of the captains chairs for babe.

I probably would also head over to car-seat.org and ask them, they are always so helpful and there Are many Canadian and BC techs.

What I wouldn't do is put one in a booster (which depending on the size of you backseat could be difficult anyways) as long as they still fit in a harness...

[Yvonne A]

There sure is a difference in vehicles..... why would Dodge only have 3 anchors in 5 passenger spots?

Finding a different bench seat (used) could help too - I had a 2001 Dodge Caravan (not a Grand) and both bench seats had anchor hooks (5) and 4 LATCH spots, so two on each seat. I spent some time trying to find Captains chairs for my van for the middle, instead of my bench but never could find one for the right price, so they are available.

[chanterelle]

3_pack_mom, thanks for your answer. I know so of many families who have had tether bolts installed, but had never heard of anyone else having gone through the whole process with ICBC. Did you have to pay extra for your "modified vehicle status"? ICBC told me to contact my insurance broker, who just laughed and told me not to worry. Easier, but perhaps not the wisest in case of an accident... DH is worried about what happens in the future if we are registered as a "modified vehicle" - for selling, insurance, etc.

DS1 is borderline for a booster seat. His age is correct, but he's just hovering around the 40lb mark. I'd like to keep him in his 5 point for a while longer, not only because it's safer, but also because he can do it up and undo it by himself (he'd need help with the booster). Brymommy & LisaP, we're leaning towards what you suggest - but it's not ideal, just because of the dynamic between our two oldest boys (they'll be devastated at being separated in different rows of the car). However, in the name of safety, I think they'll have to suck it up!

Yvonne A, apparently because Transport Canada mandates only 3 spots, that's what Chrysler does - the minimum required. Makes it tricky for families, though - I can't imagine what a family of 4 or 5 must go through to try and get all their kids in safely.

[mommyto2]

I have a 2000 dodge caravan and when I bought the van used it had 0 tether bolts. I took it to my Chrysler dealership and I requested 2 and asked about having all 3 done in the back as well and at what cost. Picked up my van and they did all 5 free of charge no questions asked would not accept a dime from me. I have also worked in auto insurance and never heard of having to change vehicle status to altered when you have more bolts put in unless this a new thing. I would just get it done and that is that.

[Guest]

Did you check under the carpet for pre-drilled holes? I had a 25 year old hatchback and the holes were there, just hidden under the carpet. In fact there were that way in all my cars. The bolt holes were there, just capped or hidden.

Kind of silly how with 7 seats you only have carseat space for 3. My friend has the same van and luckily 2 kids were in boosters so it wasn't an issue.

[chanterelle]

mommyto2, the difference is that your van is a 2000 and mine is a 2002 - the year Transport Canada changed their rules. So any van after 2002 meets the TC regs, and according to the guy I talked to at Wille Dodge, that means the dealership won't make any more holes. However, if your van is pre-2002, they'll happily punch holes in the appropriate spaces, free of charge.

L2K, we've felt around the carpet, but the carpet is sealed down on all sides - tucked under the plastic interior molding, etc., and we haven't gone to the drastic step of actually cutting it up to check. That being said, there's no mention of bolt holes in the manual at all, as the van does have enough compatible seats to meet the minimum requirements.

So, in the end, I think what we're going to do is compromise... we'll go and get the tether bolt holes put in and inspected by an ICBC registered mechanic, but not actually register the vehicle as "altered". We'll have all the paperwork for ICBC if we ever need it, but since our auto insurance place doesn't seem to care, we won't trouble them with it.

This way, not only can we put our kids where we want them, we'll have space for extra kids and their carseats (part of the reason we bought a van in the first place!).