Play smoke-free in the CRD

[SlobberBug]

This issue is finally back on the political agenda in Greater Victoria! Here's the latest on playgrounds being included in the CRD smoking legislation:

'CRD to study extending smoking ban'
http://www.cfax1070.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5690:crd-to-study-extending-smoking-ban&catid=45:mainlocal-news&Itemid=155

The old Facebook group expired when Facebook switched to the new groups format. So, I've started a new group for those interested in staying up-to-date as this develops:
Play smoke-free in the CRD http://www.facebook.com/PlaySmokeFreeInTheCrd

Kids deserve to play smoke-free in the CRD!

[WestCoastAnn]

JUST as important to our children, is people that REFUSE to pick up the solid waste from their dogs in parks where Children play....
where Adults play........... I am getting very tired of picking up dog crap from someone else's dog............while I am out walking my dog.........

Absolutely Parks must be SMOKE free, or at the very minimum, proper cigarette butts, and ash containers must be provided especially at park benches, where those too lazy to quit, must fulfill their addiction at the expense of our children, the cleanliness of our parks, and our Pets.

The fines for refusing to be a RESPONSIBLE smoker, and a RESPONSIBLE Pet owner should be VERY high, and the incentive to those who carefully and politely speak to those people about their responsiblity must be developed and supported.

[vixx]

Absolutely Parks must be SMOKE free, or at the very minimum, proper cigarette butts, and ash containers must be provided especially at park benches, where those too lazy to quit, must fulfill their addiction at the expense of our children, the cleanliness of our parks, and our Pets.

I seriously hope you were tongue in cheek with this comment and would not be so ignorant to the actual physical and mental reality of an addiction.

No, I am not a smoker and it is a very big pet peeve of mine to see butts everywhere BUT in a society where smoking tobacco is not illegal where do people get off telling someone else that they cannot do a legal activity in a PUBLIC location?

Do I think that people should be smoking in confined areas with children - no
Do I think that those same children are exposed to much more pollution just being outside at the park whether there is a smoker there or not - yes.

It is not fair for the non-smoking to expect people who smoke to not smoke anywhere in public. It is PUBLIC!

If I had a child at a park and a person was hovering over one of the swings, slides, etc I would politely ask them if possible that they smoke a little farther away but seriously a car starting in the parking lot is expelling just as many toxins into the air.

I personally have allergies to different grasses. should I demand that all parks not have grass in them because it causes a systemic reaction in my system that has the potential to kill me? Because really the argument to make smokers go away is that the smoke is potentially life threatening. But to me, so is grass.

[SlobberBug]

No, I am not a smoker and it is a very big pet peeve of mine to see butts everywhere BUT in a society where smoking tobacco is not illegal where do people get off telling someone else that they cannot do a legal activity in a PUBLIC location?

Lots of legal activity comes with restrictions in a responsible society. Owning a car is legal and owning a gun is legal. But you can't use those things to harm other people.

What valid reason is there to allow smoking in playgrounds?

[vixx]

No, I am not a smoker and it is a very big pet peeve of mine to see butts everywhere BUT in a society where smoking tobacco is not illegal where do people get off telling someone else that they cannot do a legal activity in a PUBLIC location?

Lots of legal activity comes with restrictions in a responsible society. Owning a car is legal and owning a gun is legal. But you can't use those things to harm other people.

What valid reason is there to allow smoking in playgrounds?

Because the person has a right to do so.

What valid reason is there to idle in your car? or own a car for that matter when other people feel you should bike or walk?

Can you seriously prove that a person sitting on a bench on the outskirts of a playground and smoking is putting any one in direct harm?

[Ivy-Girl]

DH or I are not smokers (and never have been) so I don't have any vested interest in keeping things status quo, but I'd be concerned that with such a by law, there will be some kids who won't be playing at a park anymore if their parents are smokers who now can't watch them if they have to keep leaving the area to go to their car or someplace for a smoke break - they'd likely give it a miss as it's too much of a hassel and their kid misses out on socialization, play, FRESH air, etc...so what's the lesser of two evils - a child who now can't play at a park anymore as their parent is unable to be there with them to supervise due to their addiction, or a bit of smoke in a wide open space where there are ashtrays, etc for butts and maybe a distance limit - no smoking within 20 feet or something of the play structure....at least that way a parent who is a smoker, can still take their kids to a park and supervise them!!

You just can't convince me that the smoke from a couple cigarettes a specified distance from a play area is going to do anyone any harm (other than the smoker )

Just seems over the top to me. And how would such a by law be enforced?

[quackers]

It bothers me. Folks get so caught up with something that they don't stop to think of the other side, SMOKING IS AN ADDICTION. Try to have some feeling for our fellow man.

where those too lazy to quit, must fulfill their addiction at the expense of our children, the cleanliness of our parks, and our Pets.

Seriously?! This attitude bothers me. Its an addiction, not laziness. So the overweight mom at the park is lazy to, because she can't go on a diet and eats all the time?!What a crappy attitude to have & to pass on to your own children.
I know many parents (relatives too) that smoke and are trying their best to quit, they go about 6 mths without and then fall back into the habit.

[Tay11]

Keep in Mind this bylaw has passed in many other areas. Vancouver for one.

This does not ban smoking in parks...just the playgrounds. OF COURSE people will still bring their child to the park...they will just have to legally move away from the play areas while smoking.

It is a common sense law like the 3 meters from doorways one...enforced by polite people and public pressure.

I fully support this and see it as such a benefit to our kids!

[Ivy-Girl]

It is a common sense law like the 3 meters from doorways one...enforced by polite people and public pressure.

But you can't legislate common sense, common courtesy or good behaviour...people either have that or don't - the ones that don't will smoke regardless of stickers or signs or by-laws. And it's been my experience that no one really pays attention to the little stickers in doorways and continue to smoke there anyways...at leasts in the downtown core where I work. I'm constantly walking through smokey doorways during the day...there's no enforcement. Does anyone know anyone who has actually personally been given a smoking by-law ticket?

It will be interesting to see where it goes. Again...not a smoker and my kids are older now and we don't go to parks really like we used to so doesn't really impact me one way or the other - just playing devil's advocate I guess.

Also, I didn't see anything in the link stating that it won't be parks in general...it actually states in the link that it is to cover parks and playgrounds...they are trying to determine how far reaching it should/will be...so who knows.

[ItsKim]

I'm not a smoker, but come on seriously, are people so addicted that they can't manage without a smoke for an hour or so at a park?? What do these people do at work, take a smoke break every hour? I know it's an addiction, but give me a break.

Addiction or not, I don't want to have to breathe in other peoples "addictions or habits" when I'm out with my kids. A lot of people have sensitivites to smoke. You should be able to take your kid to the park without worrying about them playing with someone cigarette butts or breathing in a bunch of cigarette smoke. My mom is one of those people who doesn't give a damn and will stand and smoke right under a no smoking sign outside a doorway. It's totally inconsiderate.

[jack's mum]

I used to work downtown and where I worked the 3 meter smoking law WAS enforced and fairly rigorously too so maybe it depends upon how vocal the non-smokers that work in the building are. The smokers in question were given warnings first (which stopped most), but those who insisted received fines...end of story.

Maybe the more places it becomes publicly unacceptable to smoke the more people will feel pressured to give it up. Perhaps not being able to smoke at the park with their kids may be a tipping point for one parent and encourage them to stop. Who knows. If it stopped one more person it would be worth it in my mind.

And, yes, I get that it's an addiction and hard for many to give it up--my husband smoked for 25 years. Know what his tipping point was? Having a heart attack at 43!

[SlobberBug]

... I'd be concerned that with such a by law, there will be some kids who won't be playing at a park anymore if their parents are smokers who now can't watch them if they have to keep leaving the area to go to their car or someplace for a smoke break...

You may be underestimating people who smoke. Don't smokers hold jobs in smoke-free workplaces? Don't they go to the movies? Shop in malls?

The benefits to this by-law amendment go way beyond protecting kids from second-hand smoke. It's also about cigarette butts left lying around (I picked up 300 butts in 30 minutes at a playground in James Bay), and negative role modeling.

Municipalities all over North America have already done this - including Vancouver, Nanaimo, Ottawa, Toronto, New York City, Los Angeles, Seattle, and many other smaller communities.

None of us makes perfectly healthy choices at every turn in life. But playgrounds are one of the few places we set aside as a community for kids to just be kids, so I feel we have an obligation to keep playgrounds, above all, as safe and as healthy as possible.

[TazDevil]

You can't smoke on planes anymore either? I guess no smokers ever fly?

The minute smokers exhale they lose their rights because then their deadly habit affects the health of the people around them. Smoke is as dangerous outside as in if you are standing near it.

I see a day when smoking is allowed in private homes and special ventilated rooms only and there is no public smoking anywhere else. I look forward to that day.

[TheirDad]

Seems to me this isn't really a debate about whether or not we, as a society, are okay with banning smoking in public places. We've had that debate and decided that it is in the public interest to do so. Hence the existing bylaws here, across the province, and in so many other places - which smokers (15% of the population) have all adapted to without the sky falling.

So the question here is whether or not it makes sense to apply those bylaws to a place specifically designated as being for children to play and be healthy. And that seems like a logical step. In fact, when this issue was discussed on CFAX yesterday it was interesting that a number of the people who agreed with a ban in playgrounds were smokers themselves.

If we ban smoking anywhere, shouldn't it be in places we set aside for kids? It's not only to protect their health but to also model the value of healthy choices. That's the same reason smoking is banned on school property, including playgrounds, and I don't recall any opposition to that move (pretty sure smokers still bring their kids to school). So why would banning it in public playgrounds be any different? It shouldn't be.

[jack's mum]

If we ban smoking anywhere, shouldn't it be in places we set aside for kids? It's not only to protect their health but to also model the value of healthy choices. That's the same reason smoking is banned on school property, including playgrounds, and I don't recall any opposition to that move (pretty sure smokers still bring their kids to school). So why would banning it in public playgrounds be any different? It shouldn't be.

This. Exactly.